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• 2/23/2008 7:13 PM Jacob Strom wrote:
  Your quoting of James Madison to make the point of why religion should be taught in schools was taken way out of context and completely off base with how the author of the constitution, James Madison, felt about the separation of church and state. He did say that "It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage and such only as he believes to be acceptable to him. This duty is precedent, both in order of time and in degree of obligation, to the claims of Civil Society. Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe: And if a member of Civil Society, do it with a saving of his allegiance to the Universal Sovereign."
  However, he went on to talk about how "religion is wholly exempt from the cognizance of Civil Society." James Madison would consider you a tyrant for wanting to overlap the authority of government and the authority of God. It actually goes against the very thing you claim to be the problem with America and using the founding fathers to back your false claims is bigotry sir. If you actually read the document you quoted from James Madison, then you would understand that while the founding fathers were religious, God fearing men, they believed whole heartedly in the separation between church and state. Religion and politics have never mixed well and have proven to be the biggest source of corruption the world has known. I believe the Middle Ages was a time of government run by religion and people have not known such slavery and tyranny and your agenda would return us to to a similar state of slavery. Your religious beliefs are not in peril as you live in a free nation. I have no desire for my children to be taught christianity in public school. They need to be taught how to read, how to do math and how to think on their own.
  
  Also, your statement that this is a christian nation is completely false. America is a SECULAR nation where people are free to worship, or not, as they choose.
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  1. 2/25/2008 9:12 AM David Alan Carmichael wrote:
     Grateful to Mr. Jacob Strom for his candid feedback, I am thankful for the opportunity to respond.
     
     Mr. Strom opened his commentary with “Your quoting of James Madison to make the point of why religion should be taught in schools was taken way out of context and completely off base with how the author of the constitution, James Madison, felt about the separation of church and state.”
     
     Mr. Strom did not comprehend my statement. I did not say that the public schools should teach religion. Commenting upon the 2007 State of the Union address, I stated that the public schools are not the place to teach values since they are compelled to exclude religion from their teaching.
     
     Here are some of my statements from the show –
     
     “the perspective of (the founders) is not being taught in our schools, and the schools are not quoting them. We are excluding the discussions of Almighty God, the Creator, in our discussions at school. … (schools & the N.E.A.) they’re rearing our children. They’re training them on what to think and how to believe and they’re doing it with an exclusion of God. It is the responsibility of the parents to bring up their children in the way they should go and that includes their education….. what we’ve done is turned it over to a public education system which does not teach our children right versus wrong….if we are teaching our children values without the discussion of God, there is a great potential for catastrophe.”
     
     With regard to my use of Madison’s statements, here is a transcript of my statements -
     
     “”(Quoting Madison) It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage and such only as he believes to be acceptable to him.” But it goes on there, it says “Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe: And if a member of Civil Society, do it with a saving of his allegiance to the Universal Sovereign." I was actually going to be talking about this on a little different subject today but this, this one line here “Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe” Now how is our school going to teach that in their civics classes when they have to exclude God from the discussion? That is one issue, that is one perspective, of the things that are going on, that need to be talked about in America that are not being talked about – and that is one of the visions of this Faith & Freedom show is to talk about these things…””
     
     End of Part I of response - stay tuned for part II.
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  2. 2/25/2008 9:16 AM David Alan Carmichael wrote:
     ““(Quoting Bush) Spreading hope in America requires public schools that give children the knowledge and character they need in life.” (I said that it related to Bush’s comments on the No Child Left Behind Act) … But that statement, ..”it also requires public schools that give children the knowledge and character they need in life.” I am so thankful for public schools. Good things can be had and done in public schools. That is not the foundation, the rock solid foundation where our children are supposed to be getting our knowledge and character. That’s very difficult. You know, I don’t want the National Education Association to be the parent of my children and I don’t want them to learn their social skill from eight-year-old peers. That is not where my children need to be learning.””
     
     I merely indicated that the public schools are not the answer to our need to give our children values, knowledge and character. I used as an example, that public schools cannot teach Mr. Madison’s doctrine because it would then be teaching religion. His statements refer to our civic duty as something that is subordinate to our duty as a “subject” of the Governor of the Universe:… saving allegiance to the Governor of the Universe. The definition of religion in the Virginia Constitution is stated in Article 1, Section 16. “…the duty that we owe the Creator” Madison’s statement that I quoted is consistent with his statement in the Virginia Constitution. His remonstrance that I quoted teaches religion. Because of that Christian religion that he teaches in his remonstrance, he kept the government from intruding upon religion. It was the Christian religion, or the duty that Mr. Madison owed the Creator, that secured our liberty. In the Christian religion, the duty that we owe the Creator is to love the Creator and love our neighbor as ourselves. Mr. Madison’s remonstrance was fruit of his Christian religion. He wrote his remonstrance to protect the liberty of himself and his posterity out of his loyalty to the Creator and the love for his neighbor.
     
     End of Part II - stay tuned for part III
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  3. 2/25/2008 9:19 AM David Alan Carmichael wrote:
     Mr. Strom made some passionate statements about my being a tyrant and demonstrating bigotry. From Wikipedia - “A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own. The origin of the word bigot in English dates back to at least 1598, via Middle French, and started with the sense of ‘religious hypocrite’, especially a woman. Bigot is often used as a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to prejudices even when these views are challenged or proven to be false or not universally applicable or acceptable.” Regarding tyrant, the definition was too broad to place here. The ancient use of the word would indicate a person exercising power without, or contrary to, lawful authority. In more recent times it relates to despotic and arbitrary power exercised to the hurt of the majority for the benefit of the minority in power. Of course, the later is a demonstration of the former because such selfish whimsical arbitrary hurtful acts violate the law of the Creator, or religion, and therefore cannot be done with lawful authority. Though the terms Bigot and Tyrant are pejorative, I presume that Mr. Strom is citing my behavior and not my character. His comments will be addressed on their merits.
     
     Which would Mr. Madison say was the higher authority, God or government? Did not men form government as an act of religion as Mr. Madison defined it, or did men form government out of idolatrous rebellion? Mr. Madison used, described, or cited religion as the basis and authority for the merits of his remonstrance. He did not “overlap the authority of government and the authority of God” to quote Mr. Strom. I had no intention of communicating such “overlap” in my commentary. I agree with Mr. Madison. God’s authority is supreme and government actors serving civil society are subject to Him. How else, in Mr. Madison’s words, could the legislators be a member of civil society without first being subject to the Creator? If they do not subject themselves to the Creator, then their government acts are more likely to not be keeping with the law of the Creator. Such laws not keeping with the law of the Creator, being without the Creator’s lawful authority, are then acts of tyranny. Such governmental acts, tyrannical by nature, will hurt the society. The Creator said, “Evil men do not understand justice. But those who seek the Lord understand all.” Proverbs 29:5
     
     Quoting Madison verbatim, “We maintain therefore that in matters of Religion, no man's right is abridged by the institution of Civil Society and that Religion is wholly exempt from its cognizance.” Mr. Madison did not say that Civil society is exempt from Religion’s cognizance.
     
     End of Part III - stay tuned for part IV
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  4. 2/25/2008 9:26 AM David Alan Carmichael wrote:
     The civil government and its officers are subject as a matter of religion to the Creator just as the church government and its officers are. Church and State are separate. They are in competition. The church’s job is to lead men to devotion to the Creator that they might better carry out their duty of religion to love God and love their neighbor as themselves. Against such acts there is no law, and in such acts are all laws fulfilled. The more the church fails to do its job, or the more men reject the Creator, the greater the need for civil government. John Locke said, “If men were not corrupt, vicious and degenerate, there would be no need for government.” The Creator said, “For the transgression of a land many are the princes thereof: but by a man of understanding and knowledge the state thereof shall be prolonged.” Proverbs 28:2
     
     Quoting Mr. Strom – “James Madison would consider you a tyrant for wanting to overlap the authority of government and the authority of God. It actually goes against the very thing you claim to be the problem with America and using the founding fathers to back your false claims is bigotry sir.”
     
     Were my statements really intolerant and religious hypocrisy? That is the definition of bigotry. Am I one who did, or advocated, acting without lawful authority to exercise arbitrary power to the hurt of society? That is the definition of a tyrant.. Are my claims false? My hope was to be salt and light.
     
     Quoting Mr. Strom - “Religion and politics have never mixed well and have proven to be the biggest source of corruption the world has known.”
     
     I agree. The Religious Freedom Act, Code of Va. §57-1 & 2 is a good read on that subject. If those in office would practice religion more often while executing their office, politics would have less of a corrupting influence. Men who subject themselves to the Creator rather than to men will execute and implement the Creator’s justice.
     Quoting Mr. Strom – “Your religious beliefs are not in peril as you live in a free nation.”
     
     Why is this nation relatively free Mr. Strom? Is it because our government is secular like that of a Marxist-Humanist government or is it free more because of the Christian religion? Are secular Marxist-Humanist governments of the world free? Was the hard-fought right to school our children at home won on the basis of secular principles or principles of religion? Would our freedom fare better under the influence of an Islamic religion, or a Hindu religion or an Atheistic religion, or a Marxist-Humanist religion? From whence has your freedom come. It is Christ who has set us free. It is Christ that has redeemed us from our corrupt, vicious and degenerate state.
     
     End of Part IV - stay tuned for the fifth and final episode
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• 2/25/2008 9:28 AM David Alan Carmichael wrote:
  Quoting Mr. Strom - Also, your statement that this is a christian nation is completely false. America is a SECULAR nation where people are free to worship, or not, as they choose. Sic
  
  Mr. Strom and most American’s today are being taught that this is a secular nation. A secular or anti-Christ mentality is certainly growing thanks to our parents turning over the rearing of their children to an anti-Christ educational system. From its foundations however, this nation is Christian and the nation’s government was rooted in the understanding that our Civic duty is a Christian duty of religion. The Virginia Constitution, Article I, Section 16, a product of Mr. Madison codifies Virginia’s freedom of religion and Christian responsibility:
  “That religion or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and, therefore, all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity towards each other.” Read the story in Daniel Chapter 1, and then read the Religious Freedom Restoration Act 42 USC §2000bb, to see the law of God applied in the law of men. From whence has your freedom come?
  
  The Creator said, “Abide in my words and you will be my disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth. And the truth shall make you free.” John 8:32-33
  
  Our freedom will come in proportion to our faith.
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